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	<title>Comments on: A simple explanation</title>
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		<title>By: Daniel M.</title>
		<link>http://www.jimseven.com/2010/07/06/a-simple-explanation/#comment-99476</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 03:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1659#comment-99476</guid>
		<description>You know, some people it seems get all up-in-arms over the coffee-to-wine analogy but I think the practice of comparing and contrasting the two – of sometimes using one as an analogy for the other – is instructive and useful.

Maybe all of the &quot;blather&quot; going on both behind the counter and at barista competitions represents the fact that the majority of people still see coffee as a useful drug and a commodity and not as a (dare I say it) gourmet quality product. Maybe all of the talk reflects a certain insecurity or anxiousness on the part of the specialty coffee industry or maybe a bit of impatience: &quot;when the hell are people going to start seeing coffee en masse the way it deserves to be seen and how much effort am I going to need to expend to make that happen?&quot;

Wine has a certain amount of respect built in to it. It has long history of association with the types of cuisines – and the areas that they come from – that have been associated with fine living. People tour these areas. They go on vacation there. On the other hand, much of the coffee we drink comes from countries and/or areas of countries known more for their poverty (I know the specialty coffee industry is trying to change that). As of yet it is a more widely held romantic notion for a rich retiree to move to Napa or the South of France to grow grapes and produce wine than it is for that same person to move to the mountains of Guatemala to grow coffee.

There are many perceptions as well as realities of the coffee industry that need to change before we are able to put as little effort as the wine industry puts into its product convincing the consumer of its quality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, some people it seems get all up-in-arms over the coffee-to-wine analogy but I think the practice of comparing and contrasting the two – of sometimes using one as an analogy for the other – is instructive and useful.</p>
<p>Maybe all of the &#8220;blather&#8221; going on both behind the counter and at barista competitions represents the fact that the majority of people still see coffee as a useful drug and a commodity and not as a (dare I say it) gourmet quality product. Maybe all of the talk reflects a certain insecurity or anxiousness on the part of the specialty coffee industry or maybe a bit of impatience: &#8220;when the hell are people going to start seeing coffee en masse the way it deserves to be seen and how much effort am I going to need to expend to make that happen?&#8221;</p>
<p>Wine has a certain amount of respect built in to it. It has long history of association with the types of cuisines – and the areas that they come from – that have been associated with fine living. People tour these areas. They go on vacation there. On the other hand, much of the coffee we drink comes from countries and/or areas of countries known more for their poverty (I know the specialty coffee industry is trying to change that). As of yet it is a more widely held romantic notion for a rich retiree to move to Napa or the South of France to grow grapes and produce wine than it is for that same person to move to the mountains of Guatemala to grow coffee.</p>
<p>There are many perceptions as well as realities of the coffee industry that need to change before we are able to put as little effort as the wine industry puts into its product convincing the consumer of its quality.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel M.</title>
		<link>http://www.jimseven.com/2010/07/06/a-simple-explanation/#comment-99475</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 03:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1659#comment-99475</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Being able to tie it into a cup characteristic makes it more palatable for the judges and audience but saying something like “this green grape acidity and sweetness come from the slow development at 1900 metres” (while sounding nice) does a massive disservice to the complexity of growing great coffee and is (for now) very difficult to prove.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Is there not enough correlation at this point to say, with some authority, that altitude has a heightening affect on acidity? I have been led to believe that there was. &quot;Proof&quot; is hard to come by, after all. &lt;em&gt;Strong&lt;/em&gt; correlation can tell you much of what you need to know as long as, as I said, the relationship is strong and able to be consistently reproduced. Is this something that The Global Coffee Research Project is going to look into?

Speaking of The Global Coffee Research Project and in reference to ...

&lt;blockquote&gt;To quote Dr Tim Schilling “There’s actually been more global research into making better kiwifruit than into making better coffee!”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

... I am all for research but I hope that the very research one would hope might lead to increased knowledge of the hows and whys of great coffee, doesn&#039;t lead, as well, to a splintering of the specialty coffee industry. We may know how to grow more kiwi fruit than we did before just as we now know how to grow more tomatoes than we did before but it seems that discerning people are not looking for the products of increased production anymore – the typical, under-ripe tomato, for instance – but are after those products that represent quality over quantity, i.e. the heirloom tomato, etc. We learned how to increase agricultural production long ago but it seems we have not yet learned how to do that without sacrificing real quality or, for that matter, sacrificing our environment. Let&#039;s hope that when it comes to coffee, we can change the story of our past production advances with other forms of agriculture from one of a single-minded focus on quantity to one that reflects some sort of balance between quantity &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; quality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Being able to tie it into a cup characteristic makes it more palatable for the judges and audience but saying something like “this green grape acidity and sweetness come from the slow development at 1900 metres” (while sounding nice) does a massive disservice to the complexity of growing great coffee and is (for now) very difficult to prove.</p></blockquote>
<p>Is there not enough correlation at this point to say, with some authority, that altitude has a heightening affect on acidity? I have been led to believe that there was. &#8220;Proof&#8221; is hard to come by, after all. <em>Strong</em> correlation can tell you much of what you need to know as long as, as I said, the relationship is strong and able to be consistently reproduced. Is this something that The Global Coffee Research Project is going to look into?</p>
<p>Speaking of The Global Coffee Research Project and in reference to &#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>To quote Dr Tim Schilling “There’s actually been more global research into making better kiwifruit than into making better coffee!”</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230; I am all for research but I hope that the very research one would hope might lead to increased knowledge of the hows and whys of great coffee, doesn&#8217;t lead, as well, to a splintering of the specialty coffee industry. We may know how to grow more kiwi fruit than we did before just as we now know how to grow more tomatoes than we did before but it seems that discerning people are not looking for the products of increased production anymore – the typical, under-ripe tomato, for instance – but are after those products that represent quality over quantity, i.e. the heirloom tomato, etc. We learned how to increase agricultural production long ago but it seems we have not yet learned how to do that without sacrificing real quality or, for that matter, sacrificing our environment. Let&#8217;s hope that when it comes to coffee, we can change the story of our past production advances with other forms of agriculture from one of a single-minded focus on quantity to one that reflects some sort of balance between quantity <em>and</em> quality.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Frith</title>
		<link>http://www.jimseven.com/2010/07/06/a-simple-explanation/#comment-99315</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Frith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 23:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1659#comment-99315</guid>
		<description>Forgive the non sequitur, but has anyone heard of coffee plants being grown hydroponically, indoors, without soil as a variable?  It would be a lot easier to nail down mineral/nutrient variables, for sure, not to mention a controlled climate.  We would come to understand at least a few things better (if nothing more than a &quot;let&#039;s keep growing this stuff in dirt, please.&quot;).

Hydroponics has definitely helped more than a few cash crops to improve over the years... Just wondering why this isn&#039;t being talked about in coffee circles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgive the non sequitur, but has anyone heard of coffee plants being grown hydroponically, indoors, without soil as a variable?  It would be a lot easier to nail down mineral/nutrient variables, for sure, not to mention a controlled climate.  We would come to understand at least a few things better (if nothing more than a &#8220;let&#8217;s keep growing this stuff in dirt, please.&#8221;).</p>
<p>Hydroponics has definitely helped more than a few cash crops to improve over the years&#8230; Just wondering why this isn&#8217;t being talked about in coffee circles.</p>
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		<title>By: Lance Mancandy</title>
		<link>http://www.jimseven.com/2010/07/06/a-simple-explanation/#comment-99302</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Mancandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 08:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1659#comment-99302</guid>
		<description>Forgive me if the relevance of my rant is beyond the original post. I did not read all of the  poster&#039;s answers. 

As we struggle to determine the why in a very complex issue, I submit that the wine industry has provided research that varietals have a sense of place. I believe that it is important to take a page from our brethren and acknowledge that indeed the beautiful fruit that is cultivated for our gain is in fact affected by altitude, soil, macro-climates and cultivating methods used to develop its distinctive character(s).

Competition provides the opportunity to introduce an audience to the intrinsic value and the capacity of our craft. 

Perhaps the trade winds of the pacific waters have not imparted any varietal character on the slopes of Kona. But I am certain Peter has turned many a non believer to experiencing better coffee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgive me if the relevance of my rant is beyond the original post. I did not read all of the  poster&#8217;s answers. </p>
<p>As we struggle to determine the why in a very complex issue, I submit that the wine industry has provided research that varietals have a sense of place. I believe that it is important to take a page from our brethren and acknowledge that indeed the beautiful fruit that is cultivated for our gain is in fact affected by altitude, soil, macro-climates and cultivating methods used to develop its distinctive character(s).</p>
<p>Competition provides the opportunity to introduce an audience to the intrinsic value and the capacity of our craft. </p>
<p>Perhaps the trade winds of the pacific waters have not imparted any varietal character on the slopes of Kona. But I am certain Peter has turned many a non believer to experiencing better coffee.</p>
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		<title>By: James Hoffmann</title>
		<link>http://www.jimseven.com/2010/07/06/a-simple-explanation/#comment-99288</link>
		<dc:creator>James Hoffmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1659#comment-99288</guid>
		<description>I definitely had Charles&#039; routine in the back of my mind as I wrote this, and am somewhat ashamed I never credited him with giving such a genuine and enjoyable performance.

As for your routine - what I think made it so interesting and enjoyable, and above the kind of criticism I made in the post - is that it was not speculation masquerading as knowledge about a single idea (elevation x = flavour y) but it was the presentation of three coffees that were defined and distinguished by their processing.  This is a rare opportunity for most people (lucky judges!), interesting and worthy of discussion.  Plus it had Dire Straits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely had Charles&#8217; routine in the back of my mind as I wrote this, and am somewhat ashamed I never credited him with giving such a genuine and enjoyable performance.</p>
<p>As for your routine &#8211; what I think made it so interesting and enjoyable, and above the kind of criticism I made in the post &#8211; is that it was not speculation masquerading as knowledge about a single idea (elevation x = flavour y) but it was the presentation of three coffees that were defined and distinguished by their processing.  This is a rare opportunity for most people (lucky judges!), interesting and worthy of discussion.  Plus it had Dire Straits.</p>
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		<title>By: michael phillips</title>
		<link>http://www.jimseven.com/2010/07/06/a-simple-explanation/#comment-99287</link>
		<dc:creator>michael phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 06:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1659#comment-99287</guid>
		<description>In addressing the first part of this post I have to giggle a bit.  What you are saying is pretty much the exact same thing that my friend and coach Charles Babinski based his entire routine upon this year for the US competition.  You can watch it here... http://www.justin.tv/joeespresso/b/262586304   it is a two hour clip and Charle&#039;s part starts around 1 hour 42 minutes in.  He serves three different coffees from one farm in El Salvador that are from different elevations, varietals, etc...  He says at the beginning that it would be a generous stretch for the judges to believe him in saying that X varietals and Y elevation made the coffee taste like Z but he would simply be speculating.  All he can really do is prepare the coffee using the tools he has and explain the differences in flavor as he perceives them.  I think it was one of the most fantastic and well thought out presentations I have ever seen in part because it called BS on most of the other routines out there.  
What makes this even more humorous is the fact that my routine in contrast was the direct opposite to his.  I served three coffees from one farm that were separated mainly by processing (they were all the same varietals, grown within 300 meters elevation of each other in the same valley and harvested within a week of each other)  I then focused mainly how the different processing methods very directly affected the coffee flavor and in turn everything that came after it (roast, dose, time of extraction)  While I am reluctant to say a bourbon/Pacas varietal tastes like X and an 18oo meter elevation gives Y body, I do feel that the effects of processing are one of the few things we are getting better at assigning at least a broad profile of the effect on coffee to.  I too am a bit dubious of many of the correlations that are thrown about at competitions.  Most of them are exactly as Charles says, simply speculation.  However to some extant knowing this information and starting to develop a history for our palates that ties all of this together is one of the few routes available to most of us for attempting to figure things out.  It is far from scientific and surely more work needs to be done to look into the things we suspect to be true.  While I find it flattering for it to be insinuated I found the outer limit of what can be accomplished in competitions, I know it to be entirely untrue.  In fact, in looking back on what I did this year compared to what Charles did I think that the really valuable competition routines next year wont be the ones giving answers about why and how things like processing effect flavor, they will be the ones asking questions that no one can answer just yet and inspire the rest of us to find out.

PS for the record I would love to see brewing competitions get off the ground but I think the first challenge to this however is to have more shops actually brewing to order.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addressing the first part of this post I have to giggle a bit.  What you are saying is pretty much the exact same thing that my friend and coach Charles Babinski based his entire routine upon this year for the US competition.  You can watch it here&#8230; <a href="http://www.justin.tv/joeespresso/b/262586304" rel="nofollow">http://www.justin.tv/joeespresso/b/262586304</a>   it is a two hour clip and Charle&#8217;s part starts around 1 hour 42 minutes in.  He serves three different coffees from one farm in El Salvador that are from different elevations, varietals, etc&#8230;  He says at the beginning that it would be a generous stretch for the judges to believe him in saying that X varietals and Y elevation made the coffee taste like Z but he would simply be speculating.  All he can really do is prepare the coffee using the tools he has and explain the differences in flavor as he perceives them.  I think it was one of the most fantastic and well thought out presentations I have ever seen in part because it called BS on most of the other routines out there.<br />
What makes this even more humorous is the fact that my routine in contrast was the direct opposite to his.  I served three coffees from one farm that were separated mainly by processing (they were all the same varietals, grown within 300 meters elevation of each other in the same valley and harvested within a week of each other)  I then focused mainly how the different processing methods very directly affected the coffee flavor and in turn everything that came after it (roast, dose, time of extraction)  While I am reluctant to say a bourbon/Pacas varietal tastes like X and an 18oo meter elevation gives Y body, I do feel that the effects of processing are one of the few things we are getting better at assigning at least a broad profile of the effect on coffee to.  I too am a bit dubious of many of the correlations that are thrown about at competitions.  Most of them are exactly as Charles says, simply speculation.  However to some extant knowing this information and starting to develop a history for our palates that ties all of this together is one of the few routes available to most of us for attempting to figure things out.  It is far from scientific and surely more work needs to be done to look into the things we suspect to be true.  While I find it flattering for it to be insinuated I found the outer limit of what can be accomplished in competitions, I know it to be entirely untrue.  In fact, in looking back on what I did this year compared to what Charles did I think that the really valuable competition routines next year wont be the ones giving answers about why and how things like processing effect flavor, they will be the ones asking questions that no one can answer just yet and inspire the rest of us to find out.</p>
<p>PS for the record I would love to see brewing competitions get off the ground but I think the first challenge to this however is to have more shops actually brewing to order.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike K</title>
		<link>http://www.jimseven.com/2010/07/06/a-simple-explanation/#comment-99282</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 18:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1659#comment-99282</guid>
		<description>I love the idea of this research. I believe that we should support and encourage research in many different areas... particularly coffee.
I must say that the SCAA&#039;s title &#039;Global research project&#039; sounds a little daunting! For example, in the fifties, Dr EE lockhart carried out his (relatively) famous research into people&#039;s taste preferences for various strengths and extractions of brewed coffee. His findings are still considered valid today, as there is little movement to disagree with them, and no further research to disprove them.
If this research alone were to be brought up to date, each test would need a minimum of 9 brewed samples. Forgetting about the logistics of how this could be achieved, (no small task in itself), it would be desirable to conduct the test for a number of varietals, origins, estates, processing methods, roast profile, altitudes etc. etc. (and then you could start on blends....!) That would need tests numbering in the thousands, and would be an enormous project. 
I can see the Global research project needing some definitive boundaries, as it could otherwise be a very resource hungry monster.
Of course, I&#039;m looking forward to it&#039;s first publications!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the idea of this research. I believe that we should support and encourage research in many different areas&#8230; particularly coffee.<br />
I must say that the SCAA&#8217;s title &#8216;Global research project&#8217; sounds a little daunting! For example, in the fifties, Dr EE lockhart carried out his (relatively) famous research into people&#8217;s taste preferences for various strengths and extractions of brewed coffee. His findings are still considered valid today, as there is little movement to disagree with them, and no further research to disprove them.<br />
If this research alone were to be brought up to date, each test would need a minimum of 9 brewed samples. Forgetting about the logistics of how this could be achieved, (no small task in itself), it would be desirable to conduct the test for a number of varietals, origins, estates, processing methods, roast profile, altitudes etc. etc. (and then you could start on blends&#8230;.!) That would need tests numbering in the thousands, and would be an enormous project.<br />
I can see the Global research project needing some definitive boundaries, as it could otherwise be a very resource hungry monster.<br />
Of course, I&#8217;m looking forward to it&#8217;s first publications!</p>
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		<title>By: James Hoffmann</title>
		<link>http://www.jimseven.com/2010/07/06/a-simple-explanation/#comment-99279</link>
		<dc:creator>James Hoffmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 22:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1659#comment-99279</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m always aware that in defending the WBC it might seem that I have ulterior motives in doing so, but I genuinely believe the WBC to be useful and important to the coffee industry.  Maybe not the consumer, but the industry.

If you want a new competition then my advice is to start one.  That isn&#039;t to be facetious - if you  start a brewing competition I will absolutely support and promote it (assuming it is good, which I am sure it would be!)

Competitions need volunteers - people to put time in, and there are no barriers to creating competitions other than effort and time.  The World Aeropress Competition is a great example of that - it has grown and become more popular, has participants from across the world, is fun and engaging and costs very little to do.  We were happy to support and sponsor it, and many other companies would love to see a brewing competition take hold.

Your point about Mike taking the competition as far as it can go are interesting - I certainly look forward to seeing how people push and explore what&#039;s possible next year, because there is always more....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m always aware that in defending the WBC it might seem that I have ulterior motives in doing so, but I genuinely believe the WBC to be useful and important to the coffee industry.  Maybe not the consumer, but the industry.</p>
<p>If you want a new competition then my advice is to start one.  That isn&#8217;t to be facetious &#8211; if you  start a brewing competition I will absolutely support and promote it (assuming it is good, which I am sure it would be!)</p>
<p>Competitions need volunteers &#8211; people to put time in, and there are no barriers to creating competitions other than effort and time.  The World Aeropress Competition is a great example of that &#8211; it has grown and become more popular, has participants from across the world, is fun and engaging and costs very little to do.  We were happy to support and sponsor it, and many other companies would love to see a brewing competition take hold.</p>
<p>Your point about Mike taking the competition as far as it can go are interesting &#8211; I certainly look forward to seeing how people push and explore what&#8217;s possible next year, because there is always more&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: James Hoffmann</title>
		<link>http://www.jimseven.com/2010/07/06/a-simple-explanation/#comment-99278</link>
		<dc:creator>James Hoffmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 22:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1659#comment-99278</guid>
		<description>That information doesn&#039;t really exist - not beyond anecdotal evidence anyway.  The work hasn&#039;t really been done.

I remember looking for all the info I could on the Ge(i)sha variety - all I could find was a yield study done in the 60&#039;s in Costa Rica in which it didn&#039;t do particularly well.  Nothing on taste, on soil quality etc.

Hence the need for the research project!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That information doesn&#8217;t really exist &#8211; not beyond anecdotal evidence anyway.  The work hasn&#8217;t really been done.</p>
<p>I remember looking for all the info I could on the Ge(i)sha variety &#8211; all I could find was a yield study done in the 60&#8242;s in Costa Rica in which it didn&#8217;t do particularly well.  Nothing on taste, on soil quality etc.</p>
<p>Hence the need for the research project!</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfram</title>
		<link>http://www.jimseven.com/2010/07/06/a-simple-explanation/#comment-99272</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1659#comment-99272</guid>
		<description>Hi James,

I was talking to a lot of people while in London. I was (and still are) looking for information about how coffee varietals are processing the soil and anything of a specific terroir and to what outcome this leads. You could think of a plant being some kind of machine, processing several inputs and producing a certain output.

I would love to find anything that describes how certain varietals would produce different results for a certain terroir. The only thing one can find today is according to pest resistance.

I think this topic is pretty much related to yours. Would be nice to be part oftheresearch or at least be able to support it.

Wolfram</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi James,</p>
<p>I was talking to a lot of people while in London. I was (and still are) looking for information about how coffee varietals are processing the soil and anything of a specific terroir and to what outcome this leads. You could think of a plant being some kind of machine, processing several inputs and producing a certain output.</p>
<p>I would love to find anything that describes how certain varietals would produce different results for a certain terroir. The only thing one can find today is according to pest resistance.</p>
<p>I think this topic is pretty much related to yours. Would be nice to be part oftheresearch or at least be able to support it.</p>
<p>Wolfram</p>
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