Comments on: An experiment with grind size

By: Luigi

Luigi — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:30:03 +0000

Sorry to jump off the topic of the thread :) but in regards to the whole 14 versus 18 grams or more topic, I am compelled by the whole nature of discovery that occurs outside of Italy. On the one hand, exploration and experimentation is vital to our industry, and when it boils down to it, has increased the overall quality of coffee served out there, tremendously, in recent years. But to what extent are the Italians just sitting over there saying …” I told you so” this whole time? There is an interesting anecdote in Rao’s book about this.

I’m first generation Italian – American, so I feel comfortable speaking from both sides of the equation here.

By: Dr PeterR

Dr PeterR — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:51:55 +0000

Isnt the problem that all these things are so interdependent

if you make the grind finer
you need to decrease your portafilter fill
you make need to alter the time allowed for extraction

i find that there is a really narrow window of grind/volume of coffee I can get in my portafilter and my grinder (Rancilio rocky) is doserless – so it’s always an eyeball job to see if you’ve got enough or too much.

By: Tom J.

Tom J. — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:34:14 +0000

Hi James,

funny to say this but I’ve discovered the same thing when playing with the Mojo, I was definitely grinding too coarse for my Chemex. Switching from 3 to a 1.5 on my Guatemala upped the TDS, but I have to say that the taste suffered a bit, there was noticable bitterness, something which was completly missing from the coarse grind extractions (then again those were weak in taste and underextracted). So a few days ago I’ve tried upping the dose a bit, but leaving the grind a notch coarser and the effects were really nice, more ‘juice’ less bitterness.

Just as a side note in my opinion the amount of coffee used for a brew (not the coffee/water ratio, just the amount of coffee you are brewing at one time) affects the taste as it slows down the water flow through the ‘puck’. So a certain setting used with 30g might not work so well with 60g or more. Again experiment and see for yourself.

Regards,
Tom

By: Yakster

Yakster — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 03:31:45 +0000

I started down the path of fining up the grind with my Clever Coffee Dripper and making some Brix measurements right before I found your post, so I’m going to continue to reduce the grind.

Already I’m surprised at the improvement in flavor with what I’d guess would be too fine a grind. I haven’t hit the bitter mark yet.

Great blog post, Jim

By: James Weeks

James Weeks — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 02:39:01 +0000

I agree, I would love to hear your opinion on lower dosed espresso.
i use the S.C dosing tools, and lately ive been using the #25 blade… dosing into a triple basket with a finer grind.
i’ve never enjoyed espresso so much in my life! It has a much sweeter, rounder flavor.
I do agree though, some of the mouth feel is sacrificed, but I know which I’d prefer!

By: Billy.411

Billy.411 — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:39:33 +0000

Lee,

Yeah, sorry… guess I outed from that last comment a little early!

What I meant is that the process that we use in Espresso machines can often be translated to other coffee brewing methods.
Down the grind a touch, restrict the amount of water a little and top up with fresh hot water.

Of course this isn’t always going to be able to be implemented in the working industry, but certainly to those of us at home with too much time on our hands – it’s nice to experiment.

By: Lee Wardle

Lee Wardle — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:28:50 +0000

Are you talking about espresso Billy? That’s pretty normal but it would have never occoured to me to do the same with other infusion based brewing.

I can’t get my my hands on some fresh beans until tomorrow at work so hopefully I’ll be able find time to have a play.

Lee

By: AndyS

AndyS — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:17:59 +0000

> …pulse brew, pre-infusion and bypass open a whole host
> of possibilities. All of them repeatable and scaleable.
> The only downside is the perceived lack of artisanal input…

Well said.

By: Billy.411

Billy.411 — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:41:44 +0000

Haven’t been a barista for a couple of years now… but your ‘experiment was something we were trained to do several times throughout out the work day. As temperatures rose, machines heated up, humidity changed – we were encouraged to change the grind and run this test you have outlined.

I kinda just got into the habit with my own coffees, to always grind a touch finer and then cut the the pours off a little shorter than ‘normal’ and top up with fresh hot water. I find this suits my coffee palate the best, as that last few mls of coffee is generally what puts it over the ‘acidity/bitter’ edge for me.

By: Sam

Sam — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:38:59 +0000

I work as a barista in Montreal, from an espresso brewing point of view (I’m australian i should add) I’ve been experimenting with the dosage, grind and brew times. I’m finding when i dose 18 grams and run a ristretto I’m getting extreme crema and syrupy-ness… but I’m finding it almost “grainy” (for want of a better word) I find this detrimental… I’m not sure if I’m under drawing the grounds or not– I’m worried I am, but i can’t find anything in the taste to suggest I am (beside the mouth feel)…. this sounds stupid.

However, I’m only bringing this up because the 14 gram dosage comments. Dosing 14 grams, finer grind, same run time, I’m getting the same crema, same sweetiness and desirable taste, but without this “grainy” mouthfeel. Its a direction I’ve convince my boss to roll with.

anyone who can push me in the right direction much appreciated.

* as a foot note i have a crap set up, not a great espresso machine, and beans are from Italy (Karalis… which is actually one of the better tasting beans I’ve tasted out of Italy) and I dont have the extract mojo gear… although I am familiar with it.
cheers