Comments on: Espresso Poll: Results and Analysis http://www.jimseven.com/2009/10/17/espresso-poll-results-and-analysis/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=espresso-poll-results-and-analysis James Hoffmann's blog. Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:10:57 +0000 hourly 1 By: 非主流美女图片 http://www.jimseven.com/2009/10/17/espresso-poll-results-and-analysis/#comment-97641 非主流美女图片 Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:55:32 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1114#comment-97641 呵不错 呵不错

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: jon stovall http://www.jimseven.com/2009/10/17/espresso-poll-results-and-analysis/#comment-97640 jon stovall Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:47:44 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1114#comment-97640 i wish i had found this earlier. i like to weigh the shot as it extracts and my numbers are way different than what i see here. i get shots that weight about the same as the dry coffee used to make them, 19g coffee, 19g of espresso. 30g of espresso seems like it would be a huge shot, maybe im wrong? i wish i had found this earlier. i like to weigh the shot as it extracts and my numbers are way different than what i see here. i get shots that weight about the same as the dry coffee used to make them, 19g coffee, 19g of espresso. 30g of espresso seems like it would be a huge shot, maybe im wrong?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Conrad http://www.jimseven.com/2009/10/17/espresso-poll-results-and-analysis/#comment-97582 Conrad Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:14:25 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1114#comment-97582 Hi Jim. I'm new to this posting scene, but I was interested in your attempmt to analyse espresso extraction. I have been using mojo for filter and found it to be solid indicator of a desirable balanced brew. I must try it for espresso. I generally use 14g to 15g due to basket size( narrow), it accepts 16g max. Shots are best between 22g and 26g time 22 to 26 secs. I will to tds for a range of shots to see variances. I think to gain useful results we need to either control some variables or maybe for more complete results attempt to record these key factors. For example a higher dose will over the total brew time have different reaction. eg. more water absorbed by coffee ie. 14g v's 24g 60% more water. Or another way of saying that is much higher contact time relative to shot size. Anyway I'll get the ball rolling on a few tests and see where it leads. C Hi Jim. I’m new to this posting scene, but I was interested in your attempmt to analyse espresso extraction. I have been using mojo for filter and found it to be solid indicator of a desirable balanced brew. I must try it for espresso. I generally use 14g to 15g due to basket size( narrow), it accepts 16g max. Shots are best between 22g and 26g time 22 to 26 secs. I will to tds for a range of shots to see variances. I think to gain useful results we need to either control some variables or maybe for more complete results attempt to record these key factors. For example a higher dose will over the total brew time have different reaction. eg. more water absorbed by coffee ie. 14g v’s 24g 60% more water. Or another way of saying that is much higher contact time relative to shot size. Anyway I’ll get the ball rolling on a few tests and see where it leads.
C

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Nico http://www.jimseven.com/2009/10/17/espresso-poll-results-and-analysis/#comment-97481 Nico Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:29:09 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1114#comment-97481 I just one question: in the "average" part you say that the brew ration is 53% which I can understand as 17.2/32.7=0.52 but in the "flavour" part I don't get how you have a brew ratio of 66% as 17.5/30=0.58 same for "balance" with 18.7/33.4=0.56 and for "texture" with 16.7/36.9=0.45 Could you clarify how you get those values? I just one question:

in the “average” part you say that the brew ration is 53% which I can understand as 17.2/32.7=0.52

but in the “flavour” part I don’t get how you have a brew ratio of 66% as 17.5/30=0.58
same for “balance” with 18.7/33.4=0.56 and for “texture” with 16.7/36.9=0.45

Could you clarify how you get those values?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Hugo http://www.jimseven.com/2009/10/17/espresso-poll-results-and-analysis/#comment-97448 Hugo Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:03:37 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1114#comment-97448 Thanks for posting the results, it's depressing to know that my idea of a good shot is merely an average shot in every way. I'd love to know who's who too.... I'm worried that a whole bunch of pollsters were pulling what I'd think of as massively ristretto shots using almost uncouth doses. Face-melters I think they're called. What do these folks call a ristretto if that's an espresso? Thanks for posting the results, it’s depressing to know that my idea of a good shot is merely an average shot in every way. I’d love to know who’s who too….

I’m worried that a whole bunch of pollsters were pulling what I’d think of as massively ristretto shots using almost uncouth doses. Face-melters I think they’re called. What do these folks call a ristretto if that’s an espresso?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: James Hoffmann http://www.jimseven.com/2009/10/17/espresso-poll-results-and-analysis/#comment-97433 James Hoffmann Sun, 18 Oct 2009 19:22:34 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1114#comment-97433 Very good points. I don't think we can answer some of those questions until we've got more data. It could be that we roast and blend based on 17-18% extractions, but it turns out 19-20% may taste better, or that it does taste best at 17-18%. That is why I posted the likely TDS readings with the caveat that they were approximate guesses. I think Mojo will doubtless encourage experimentation. For me using it highlighted how sensitive my extractions are to the amount of water pushed through - though perhaps an issue with my set up. I found that there was a need to be pretty precise on the liquid dose to hit the nail on the head, though I am learning this can be fixed. I also just got the new Mojo, and filtration kit so need to go back and do some more measurements. I don't think Mojo will change our taste preferences, though it will go a long way to better explaining them and understanding them (and their range of tolerance). I think new coffees, or changing qualities of green coffee (for the better) will have a bigger impact on our taste preferences. I'd love to know how Esmeralda would have been scored by a cupper in 1920... Very good points. I don’t think we can answer some of those questions until we’ve got more data. It could be that we roast and blend based on 17-18% extractions, but it turns out 19-20% may taste better, or that it does taste best at 17-18%. That is why I posted the likely TDS readings with the caveat that they were approximate guesses.

I think Mojo will doubtless encourage experimentation. For me using it highlighted how sensitive my extractions are to the amount of water pushed through – though perhaps an issue with my set up. I found that there was a need to be pretty precise on the liquid dose to hit the nail on the head, though I am learning this can be fixed. I also just got the new Mojo, and filtration kit so need to go back and do some more measurements.

I don’t think Mojo will change our taste preferences, though it will go a long way to better explaining them and understanding them (and their range of tolerance). I think new coffees, or changing qualities of green coffee (for the better) will have a bigger impact on our taste preferences. I’d love to know how Esmeralda would have been scored by a cupper in 1920…

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: AndyS http://www.jimseven.com/2009/10/17/espresso-poll-results-and-analysis/#comment-97429 AndyS Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:44:06 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1114#comment-97429 > Vince did a simple calculation where we assumed that extraction > was around 20% of the coffee (as people had dialled in for taste) > and therefore the likely strength of the average espresso was 12.2 No doubt Vince did the calculation correctly. But as actual measurements trickle in, it appears that many people habitually prepare espresso with an extraction yield in the 17-18% range. And this raises some interesting (to the geek) questions: 1. Are they roasting specifically to optimize flavor at 17-18%, or do they just prefer that flavor balance with any coffee? 2. Will Mojo encourage folks to play with higher-yielding shots, and will taste preferences gradually shift as a result? If that were to occur, Mojo will turn out to be much more influential than we might have predicted. 3. What is the opposite of "embiggen?" ;-) > Vince did a simple calculation where we assumed that extraction
> was around 20% of the coffee (as people had dialled in for taste)
> and therefore the likely strength of the average espresso was 12.2

No doubt Vince did the calculation correctly. But as actual measurements trickle in, it appears that many people habitually prepare espresso with an extraction yield in the 17-18% range. And this raises some interesting (to the geek) questions:
1. Are they roasting specifically to optimize flavor at 17-18%, or do they just prefer that flavor balance with any coffee?
2. Will Mojo encourage folks to play with higher-yielding shots, and will taste preferences gradually shift as a result? If that were to occur, Mojo will turn out to be much more influential than we might have predicted.
3. What is the opposite of “embiggen?” ;-)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: rob berghmans http://www.jimseven.com/2009/10/17/espresso-poll-results-and-analysis/#comment-97427 rob berghmans Sun, 18 Oct 2009 09:12:26 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1114#comment-97427 In this I don't see the basket size. Is this of no importance? We use large baskets and have difficulties pulling sweet shots with less then 20 grams in it. When we use the same grinder and we want more 'sirupy' double ristretto's for more flavorful cappuccino's we even dose 22 to 24 grams. When I see your charts this system seems to be very bizar. Maybe time to check things and try smaller baskets (again). Thanks for the poll James. Very learnful. It's good someone studies it this way. In this I don’t see the basket size. Is this of no importance?
We use large baskets and have difficulties pulling sweet shots with less then 20 grams in it. When we use the same grinder and we want more ‘sirupy’ double ristretto’s for more flavorful cappuccino’s we even dose 22 to 24 grams.
When I see your charts this system seems to be very bizar. Maybe time to check things and try smaller baskets (again).

Thanks for the poll James. Very learnful. It’s good someone studies it this way.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Tweets that mention Espresso Poll: Results and Analysis -- Topsy.com http://www.jimseven.com/2009/10/17/espresso-poll-results-and-analysis/#comment-97426 Tweets that mention Espresso Poll: Results and Analysis -- Topsy.com Sat, 17 Oct 2009 22:10:11 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1114#comment-97426 [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by James Hoffmann, UK Food Blogs. UK Food Blogs said: Espresso Poll: Results and Analysis http://ff.im/-a1Jom [...] [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by James Hoffmann, UK Food Blogs. UK Food Blogs said: Espresso Poll: Results and Analysis http://ff.im/-a1Jom [...]

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]>