Comments on: Video 10 – Labelling results http://www.jimseven.com/2009/07/17/video-10-labelling-results/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=video-10-labelling-results James Hoffmann's blog. Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:10:57 +0000 hourly 1 By: Erik Fooladi http://www.jimseven.com/2009/07/17/video-10-labelling-results/#comment-97266 Erik Fooladi Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:21:23 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1035#comment-97266 Wonderful videos, and as a layman (coffee-wise) I find the question about descriptions very intriguing. One point that might be interesting to pursue is the fact that flavour can be divided into three/four components, which of two are felt one the tongue (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm taking this slightly from the top of my head): <b>1) taste (on the tongue, in the mouth)</b> salty, acid/sour, bitter, sweet, umami <b>2) textures and trigeminal effects (on the tongue, in the mouth):</b> temperatures, smoothness, metallic (try putting a metal spoon in your mouth...), hot/pungent (i.e. chili), cooling (i.e. menthol), greasy, crunchy etc. <b>3) aroma/scent/odour (in the nose):</b> talks for it self, maybe. Apples and pears taste the same if you hold your nose-type of phenomena. <i>If the descriptors are categorised into these three categories; which category will receive most references, and do any of them have more correct matches than others? Are customers oriented towards what is regitered in the mouth rather than in the nose, or vice versa? (you mention that descriptions in common supermarkets etc. are more oriented to the mouth part, right?) Wonderful videos, and as a layman (coffee-wise) I find the question about descriptions very intriguing. One point that might be interesting to pursue is the fact that flavour can be divided into three/four components, which of two are felt one the tongue (correct me if I’m wrong, I’m taking this slightly from the top of my head):
1) taste (on the tongue, in the mouth)
salty, acid/sour, bitter, sweet, umami
2) textures and trigeminal effects (on the tongue, in the mouth):
temperatures, smoothness, metallic (try putting a metal spoon in your mouth…), hot/pungent (i.e. chili), cooling (i.e. menthol), greasy, crunchy etc.
3) aroma/scent/odour (in the nose):
talks for it self, maybe. Apples and pears taste the same if you hold your nose-type of phenomena.

If the descriptors are categorised into these three categories; which category will receive most references, and do any of them have more correct matches than others? Are customers oriented towards what is regitered in the mouth rather than in the nose, or vice versa? (you mention that descriptions in common supermarkets etc. are more oriented to the mouth part, right?)

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]]> By: Anne http://www.jimseven.com/2009/07/17/video-10-labelling-results/#comment-97027 Anne Sun, 26 Jul 2009 15:35:42 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1035#comment-97027 Hey James, It doesn't need to be said that these videos have all been great and I've been rambling on about them to anyone that will listen here in rural Massachusetts. I did have a thought about this experiment though. I've found when doing introductory tasting people tend to gravitate towards the most unusual coffee on the table - be that a kenyan, a dark roast, a natural, etc. Since you used two kenyans I think it was mitigated somewhat but I would be really interested to see what the success rate was like with four very similar coffees - all centrals, or all el salvador bourbons, to see what the match rate is like then. I think we as coffee professionals think people "get" coffees when really they're just guessing with the most unusual coffee on the table. Often I can find that people are still using the same descriptors and can explain back to them why they guessed "correctly," but it would be interesting to see how successful we are at describing the nuances of very similar coffees back to the consumer - if at all. Hey James,

It doesn’t need to be said that these videos have all been great and I’ve been rambling on about them to anyone that will listen here in rural Massachusetts. I did have a thought about this experiment though. I’ve found when doing introductory tasting people tend to gravitate towards the most unusual coffee on the table – be that a kenyan, a dark roast, a natural, etc. Since you used two kenyans I think it was mitigated somewhat but I would be really interested to see what the success rate was like with four very similar coffees – all centrals, or all el salvador bourbons, to see what the match rate is like then. I think we as coffee professionals think people “get” coffees when really they’re just guessing with the most unusual coffee on the table. Often I can find that people are still using the same descriptors and can explain back to them why they guessed “correctly,” but it would be interesting to see how successful we are at describing the nuances of very similar coffees back to the consumer – if at all.

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]]> By: David Pier http://www.jimseven.com/2009/07/17/video-10-labelling-results/#comment-97010 David Pier Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:04:57 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1035#comment-97010 Re: blip.tv, I imagine Jim is using it because it offers better video quality. It might just be that the quality is so high that it is exceeding the bandwith of even some broadband connections. Re: blip.tv, I imagine Jim is using it because it offers better video quality. It might just be that the quality is so high that it is exceeding the bandwith of even some broadband connections.

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]]> By: Hunt Slade http://www.jimseven.com/2009/07/17/video-10-labelling-results/#comment-96986 Hunt Slade Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:48:04 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1035#comment-96986 We will def be doing this in our shop - will check back in with results. Very exciting. We will def be doing this in our shop – will check back in with results. Very exciting.

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]]> By: Hunt Slade http://www.jimseven.com/2009/07/17/video-10-labelling-results/#comment-96985 Hunt Slade Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:46:37 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1035#comment-96985 Here in the southeast US, it is very slow - even on a cable modem. Pause and then play is our ordeal - worth it, but frustrating. Here in the southeast US, it is very slow – even on a cable modem. Pause and then play is our ordeal – worth it, but frustrating.

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]]> By: shm http://www.jimseven.com/2009/07/17/video-10-labelling-results/#comment-96939 shm Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:49:28 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1035#comment-96939 I'm in Scotland with a 24 meg (14 in actuality) line and I have to let it load a bit before watching, I'd say it was the blog's fault. I’m in Scotland with a 24 meg (14 in actuality) line and I have to let it load a bit before watching, I’d say it was the blog’s fault.

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]]> By: Nicholas Lundgaard http://www.jimseven.com/2009/07/17/video-10-labelling-results/#comment-96927 Nicholas Lundgaard Mon, 20 Jul 2009 05:54:36 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1035#comment-96927 James, I'm in the US and can confirm that it's slow. I wouldn't say "slow as ****," but it's too slow to keep up with watching right from the start--I have to let it download about a third of the way before starting. Not a big deal for me, certainly not something I would complain about. Vimeo was always great, though. What made you quit using it? Anyway, great video, very close to my heart. I know there are a lot of roasters are either completely silent about their coffee's profile, or very vague. Some people argue that getting "spoonfed the answers" on flavors is like cheating, or is downright misleading. Personally, I think that's crap and I've always appreciated the guidance on flavors--Knowing what to look for was one great tool that's helped me develop my palate further, and brewing espresso the descriptions are a great tool for diagnosing whether I'm pulling shots in the intended range (not that I've ever felt bound to do so). Regards, --Nicholas James,

I’m in the US and can confirm that it’s slow. I wouldn’t say “slow as ****,” but it’s too slow to keep up with watching right from the start–I have to let it download about a third of the way before starting. Not a big deal for me, certainly not something I would complain about. Vimeo was always great, though. What made you quit using it?

Anyway, great video, very close to my heart. I know there are a lot of roasters are either completely silent about their coffee’s profile, or very vague. Some people argue that getting “spoonfed the answers” on flavors is like cheating, or is downright misleading. Personally, I think that’s crap and I’ve always appreciated the guidance on flavors–Knowing what to look for was one great tool that’s helped me develop my palate further, and brewing espresso the descriptions are a great tool for diagnosing whether I’m pulling shots in the intended range (not that I’ve ever felt bound to do so).

Regards,
–Nicholas

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]]> By: Carl http://www.jimseven.com/2009/07/17/video-10-labelling-results/#comment-96922 Carl Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:34:34 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1035#comment-96922 Same for me - tried at work and home. (I assumed it was contention what with the videos being SO popular :-) I just signed up for the monthly subscription - I'd be up for Colin's unlabelled bags exp't. I actually dislike flavour (as opposed to texture) descriptors on the label. I find they prejudice my taste too easily and they can be a bit frustrating,verging on intimidating. Same for me – tried at work and home. (I assumed it was contention what with the videos being SO popular :-)

I just signed up for the monthly subscription – I’d be up for Colin’s unlabelled bags exp’t. I actually dislike flavour (as opposed to texture) descriptors on the label. I find they prejudice my taste too easily and they can be a bit frustrating,verging on intimidating.

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]]> By: ChristianK http://www.jimseven.com/2009/07/17/video-10-labelling-results/#comment-96916 ChristianK Sun, 19 Jul 2009 15:34:27 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1035#comment-96916 I need to load all the videos first (press pause) and wait till they are loaded. Otherwise the video stops every view seconds. I need to load all the videos first (press pause) and wait till they are loaded. Otherwise the video stops every view seconds.

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]]> By: James Hoffmann http://www.jimseven.com/2009/07/17/video-10-labelling-results/#comment-96914 James Hoffmann Sun, 19 Jul 2009 14:18:53 +0000 http://www.jimseven.com/?p=1035#comment-96914 Odd - I've been watching things back after uploading and it has been very quick. Perhaps it doesn't like you guys over in Dublin? Is it slow for everyone else? Odd – I’ve been watching things back after uploading and it has been very quick. Perhaps it doesn’t like you guys over in Dublin?

Is it slow for everyone else?

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